Trudy & Marla also talk about –

1. Marla’s decision to up and move to Isla Mujeres, Mexico.
2. How business experienced difficulties when the Covid pandemic hit.
3. How Marla then made the decision to participate in online courses.
4. Marla found an audience that were people who wanted to create a course but didn’t know how to start.
5. They talk about course structures and what improvements can be made to engage participants.
6. Marla talks about how she found her balance in life with her move to Mexico.
7. Her involvement in SPI Pro and mastermind groups. That came from her association with Pat Flynn.
8. The support she received from her mastermind community when her first course was released.
9. The importance of having someone with an outside perspective.
10. By continuing to try and talk to people and hear them and see when and what support they require.

LISTEN HERE

“Have you started a business within the last couple of years, and you want to grow it? Or have you been working as a solopreneurs or bricks and mortar business owner for a while? And you want to get more out of your business by moving some or all of it online? Then the online business launchpad podcasters is for you. I’m your host, Trudy Rankin. On each week, I share other people’s online business journeys. So you know you’re not alone. And I talked with experts about things that will help you break through the barriers that slow you down. And most importantly, I share tips and techniques that I’ve learned the hard way so that you don’t have to make the same mistakes. Are you ready to grow your business online? Okay, let’s go. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the online business launchpad podcast. I’m your host Trudy Rankin and I’ve got Marla Martinez with me today. Marla’s the founder of Refocused Income Streams, and she knows a lot about something that’s dear to my heart, and that’s online courses and not just creating online courses but helping people designed them so that the learning journey makes sense and the learning floors logical and works for students. And I don’t know how many courses I’ve taken myself that have not flowed very well and haven’t been that logical, and it makes them more difficult to learn. And there’s a There’s a term, a technical term that encompasses that designing of courses so that their logical on that’s the curriculum. And basically, if we put it in another way, Marla helps course creators get the content organised and optimised for an efficient learning experience. Now I’ve learned over the years that curriculum design is often overlooked, part of what can sometimes still be the Wild West of online learning.”

“And like I said, there’s lots of online courses out there, but not all of them are organised or optimised, and it can make you feel like you’ve wasted your money. Hey, I just wanted to say Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I’m really interested in hearing more about your background because what you do, I find really, really interesting. It’s, you know, we obviously we really enjoy creating courses and we run programmes for people who want to learn how to start business and that CZ one of that kind of unknown things when you get started. I’ve seen so many bad online courses because they don’t do what it is that you do. So just tell us a little bit more about your background and where you’re from and what you do”

Marla Martinez: “So I live in. A summer head is Mexico, which is a little small island in the Caribbean off of Cancun, and I have lots of different businesses. But my course creating business came about when all of my tourism businesses sort of tanked with the pandemic. We have, ah, a vacation rental business and a catering business in a restaurant and all and tourism. And all of that went away when the pandemic, hit and the island closed. So I started just taking online courses and my background. My master’s degree is in educational leadership, So I’ve done educational consulting and curricula, mapping and director of curriculum instruction at a private school and director of educational technology and education. And so when I started taking courses, I realised, Gosh, this is really good content. What? But why am I not finishing this course and why am I finding myself not really wanting to do this. And so I thought, Well, you know, I may I would do with this way or gosh, I wonder if they’ve tried that and I wonder what their dropout rate is. I wonder if people other people are dropping out here. So I just started finding myself asking those questions and realising that if you didn’t go to school too, don’t go through the training to know how the brain learns and curriculum designed, then why would you know that? So I just kind of saw a need there that I felt like I could fill and yeah, that’s it.”

Trudy Rankin: “Wow. So it always surprises me when I hear about people’s backgrounds because you find people who have done some amazing things in terms of study. You’ve got a master’s degree and things like that, and then you’re telling me you’ve had your businesses are face to face type stuff, totally outside of what it is that you studied for. How does it How did that journey happen?”

Marla Martinez : “Well, that was sort of the interesting part. I was consulting with schools off internationally all over the world and how to put in place processes of curriculum, review and analysis, and I just burned out. And so I was coming on vacation to this island and finally decided, Well, other people get to live there. Why don’t I get to live there? And so I quit my job, sold my house, sold my car and moved to his Caribbean island and said, you know, if I have to move back and work until I retire like the rest of the world, okay. And 11 years later, I’m still here. And when I moved here, you know, I thought I would still be consulting, but it just found that I didn’t want to leave. I didn’t want to leave the island. I loved being here. And so I just started reaching out, finding out where was the need and what could I do to fill it. And, as it turns out, running the school and running someone’s vacation not so different. You just remove obstacles for people and make sure people have what they need and everyone’s happy and you organised and communicate and show up when you say well and everyone’s happy. So they kind of just transpired into that. And I’ve always been sort of an entrepreneurial type of person and have started numerous businesses all my life. And so it was sort of no big deal second nature. And now I want to start a dropshipping store and poof, I have another business. And so, you know, it’s always just I guess it’s a pattern.”

Trudy Rankin: “I love the fact that you’ve got multiple multiple businesses and multiple things that you do, because I’m one of those people where I like trying new things. I like experimenting and seeing what will happen. And you know the advice that you hear all the time, and I understand why it gets given. And that is that. Just focus on one thing. Focus on the one thing, and when you’re first starting out, you do need to kind of focus on the one thing so that you can learn and master the skills and know what to do. But once you’ve mastered those skills, why not try the things.”

Marla Martinez : “Well. It’s like you said it’s scaling its scale. I mean, because all of our tourism businesses all kind of feed into each other, the vacation rental business, then I have that audience is the same as well then you should try a restaurant while you’re here. And if you’d like to have dinner entertainment in knew the villa that you’ve rented that you’ve spent all this money for, why not make memories there and entertainment? It’s more than just a meal. It’s a memory. And so it’s selling that experience. And when they get home, I’II email them and say, In case you forgot any souvenirs, here’s our online store, so the audience is the same, but the messages are different and you sort of cater to different people. And then there’s also the piece of that collaborative marketing, So I’m going to help the person renting golf carts were in golf carts. To my guests who were here, and when they’re on Facebook and find someone looking for a vacation rental there, they’re going to recommend me. So we’re helping each other.”

Trudy Rankin: “Yeah, that collaboration. Things really, really important and It’s something more, I think for every business owner eyes. Actually we’re thinking about and interesting because it’s interesting to me when I talk to people about collaboration on different people, have different ideas about what that actually looks like, and from what you’re saying it sounds like you’re just remembering that somebody else offers something that could help, you know, help your clients and they remember that you could help their clients. Do you have any other kinds of collaborations.”

Marla Martinez : with local businesses? I do, especially during the pandemic when we were trying to support our staff families, we would do raffles. And so I would partner with a friend of mine who has a boat tour agency. And so and we have the restaurant. And so we did a raffle together where we were able to get a home donated and we donated a tour and entertainment experience and the things that we do and then we sold. Ruffle tickets, get to those for that and all of that money went to our staff to share so that they could get through this pandemic. So, yeah, we do that a lot, especially with all the social media and people asking for recommendations. Yeah, E

Trudy: yeah. I think that’s really, really cool, you know, took a little bit more about this, this shift that you’ve been talking about. You said Covid obviously dried out the tourist industry And so you’re refocusing in an online way on the skill sets that you develop before you moved to the island. You just talk about your business and where it’s at a moment and how you help people with that.

Marla :Sure, I’ve got a couple of different avenues of this to kind of try it out. I’ve done that done for you that done with you and the course as well. And you know, it depends on the client and what they need and how I work with them. Ultimately, my course is a cohort model That was the same model as my master’s degree, actually, and there were no 30 of us who went through 11 months of intense course courses, a programme. And so that’s exactly what I’ve said mine up as because I do want that feedback loop in built-in and having that one toe one opportunities in that or wonder if you so I just created. I just started with just doing it for you and working with a client. You know, that way. And then I did. I’ve done several done with you and then I walked them through the process. and Then my course is set up with videos and weekly office hours, to help guide people through that process of defining what is the result? What is the transformation that they’re offering and how is everything they’re asking of these participants or students? How is whether asking of them related to that? And how are they tracking what they’re giving? Whether asking.

Trudy :So so, do you primarily work with course creators online or offline?

Marla: Yes, and some of them are. Some of them don’t really consider themselves course creators. I work with an intuitive coach, and she is. That is not. Her goal is to create a lot of courses. But there are components of what she does with clients that she wants to create some sort of as a course and structure that way so that they are focused. And, you know, it’s kind of the same thing that she’s doing with multiples. So I’ve worked with people who were doing that that way, and then other people who are straight on doing out creating a course and just don’t have the experience of the curriculum and instruction design.

Trudy : Yeah, I mean those words just by themselves. They’re a little bit technical. You know they’re related to the education field, and a lot of people would have not necessarily heard them. Or if they heard that they thought All that expert language you know don’t we don’t understand it. We’re not going to try and even apply that to our businesses. So maybe this. Can we just talk about that for a little bit? In terms of your area of expertise, let’s just just just put forward to a scenario. Let’s say that you’re somebody who has started a business. You know that there’s an online component. You want to have a course you want to create a course. How would you or how would you advise somebody who’s not familiar with the words curriculum or course designer thing like that? How would you advise somebody to just think about what they might need to do to actually create a course? Not just any course, but, of course, that people want to finish.

Marla : Well, there are two parts of this. Actually, when I first kind of started down this path, I really felt like my audience were course creators who had high dropout rates, high refund requests and not getting the reviews and testimonials so that they could then help more people insert more people. But that really wasn’t true. What I found was an audience that were people who wanted to create a course but didn’t know how to start. They felt stuck and they felt overwhelmed and didn’t know how to start. So I start with the end in mind. It’s a three-step process to find where you want to be. What do they need to know to get there? And what is it? What does it look like when they’re there? And what do they need to know to get there so kind of a backward design process and then from that you designed results, statements or transformational statements that what are they getting out of it? I think a lot of courses end up dragging on just giving information, giving information and giving information without really thinking about where is the wind and what’s the hook that’s keeping their students coming back and staying engaged? And, you know, that’s really intentional where you’re putting together, of course, and so being able to identify what air the transformations that they’re promising, what does it look like when they understand it. And what do they need to do to get them there and really just keeping it simple and down to those processes? And it’s almost like I used this analogy of a soccer camp. So if you go to soccer camp, you know if it’s five days every day, they may have a specific drill. And the evaluation of this camp is the game on the weekend. And not only can you perform the drills, but you know when to perform the drills. And you know how To execute be efficient with post drills and win the game.

And that’s how you know when you have achieved the transformation and it’s sort of the same thing. You know, it Sze giving people the information but then giving them opportunities to practise it and understanding that there is a continuum. You know, you start with identifying and defining and understanding things, but then you move into applying it into your own realm of understanding and what you’re trying to accomplish. And then, in the end, you’re trying to create something new. That is what the transformation for yourself and so being able to just think cognizant of that process.

Trudy: Yeah, because I I’m probably I don’t know about you, but I’ve consumed a lot of online courses in my time trying to learn. And I can’t count the times when I’ve sort of gone in there either. They’re really good at marketing and you sort of go, Wow, that’s what I need. And you get in there and then you go, What? This isn’t even coherent. It doesn’t fit together. I don’t know what I just learned. It doesn’t fit with how I think all of those sorts of things. So how would I’m just wondering whether you have any tips for people who are, you know, they do want that transformation for their for their students. How would how would they go about taking those sorts of things into account?

Marla : It’s like when you get hooked on a Netflix series and you’re watching one episode and they give you just enough of what you give you a win and then they give you just enough to make you want to go to the next episode. So it’s planning your wins, and I mean, I’m the same as you. I’ve purchased so many high ticket courses that I didn’t finish. And no one reached out to me to say, Hey, I noticed that you dropped off here. Is there a reason why? And life gets in the way and things happen? How can help you get re engaged? I had none of that. And so I think, being able to know, where students are and where they’re getting stuck and where they dropping off. But being able to plan that win or the transformation that you’re promising and get it in there early enough that they couldn’t say, OK, cheque. I got this moving on to the next one and making them spiral and connect. That’s one of the things that I talk about in my refocus. filters Then when you have your course, I want you to go through and track for each module where this common thread is spiraling through all of those modules. And how is it getting them to the transformation and how are they celebrating it?

Trudy:

Yeah, well, that’s an interesting one. That that the celebration of it. What do you do for for me? I don’t know. Maybe I’m just different, but for me, I tend not to celebrate stuff, and I’m okay with that. But I really like being able to tick the complete box. You know, that’s my celebration. And it’s like, Yes, because, yeah, go ahead.

Marla :

I was going to say another big part of what that I build into my forces is this process of getting reviews, referrals and testimonials and building in that reflection component into each modules so that at the end of the course, that student can look at what they’ve written across each of those modules for what? Their transformation, when I got out of it and then pull that and the transfer, the testimonial or the review was written, and they have the words because how many times that someone asked us to write a review or a testimonial for them, And I kind of say, Okay, well, what do you want me to include? What’s important for you to know? And if I don’t know that was talking and writing, then that’s a problem. So I always have students write that testimonial for themselves and their course before they start because then they know what that is. What is it that they want to come from this course? What do they want students to say about this course two years from now? How has it transformed their life two years from now? What is that overarching result?

Trudy:

That is brilliant. I haven’t heard anybody sort of suggest that before before they do the module to do the course. That’s just really good, because we were pretty careful about trying to make sure that we get feedback and we do ask people afterwards for feedback. And would you like to ride a testimonial? And not everybody does, but enough people do that. It really makes it worthwhile. But I’ve never thought about doing it the other way because that’s powerful psychologically, because not only are you getting a testimonial, but you’re getting those people set up psychologically for success and for completion, because if you’ve written this thing that you that means success for you, you are so much more likely to finish. Then, if you didn’t do that, that’s what that’s gold. That’s what Brilliant

Marla :

Because of course, Creator, you know what those winds are so that you could make sure that they’re getting them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, because one of the things that I’ve had a lot attention. To and I have paid a lot of attention to our over the years. Has bean completion rates? Completion rates typically tend for the online business types, Of course, is that they’re out there, and by that I mean they’re not accredited. There’s something somebody’s created to help somebody learn a particular thing or skill, but you don’t get college credit for you don’t get etcetera or university credit for it. But the completion rates, as far as I can tell, they tend to be below 10%. So right across, right across the board. Now, of course, there’s outliers. There’s there’s people who just do it so well that the completion rates are higher. Do you know how in your experience have you had situations where people have do? Do people tend to actually measure their completion rates? Typically, you have got a follow up question to that.

Marla :

You know, I I originally felt pretty strongly about the completion rates, and then I was speaking with someone and they made a comment. Well, sometimes I get what I’m after before I complete the course. So maybe the completion rates are not as important as I thought they were, So I’ve sort of changed my tune a little bit on that. And it’s more about Are they getting the transformation, that one you’re selling in marketing and two that they wanted to get out of it? Maybe the completion rate of the course that the software give it gives us maybe is not as important. You know, I don’t think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But, you know, I think knowing you know what that is is important, but also knowing if students are getting that transformation, which would come from a review referral or testimonial.

Trudy :

That’s really interesting because we are one of the things that we focus on very much as analytics and metrics, which is why we’re interested in the completion. Writes it because it can be a sing a signal that people aren’t getting what they’re looking for. So you’ve gotta have that loop. But that referral testimonial thing that that is, that’s one metric. Do you ever use custom that the No, that metric where people say, How likely are you to recommend this thing?

Marla :

I haven’t used that one, but it would be a really good winning to throw the Senate. Kind of Think of this like as in schools, Remember, when you have the standardised test and you have the, you know, like an S A T or something and K 12 schools, they give these fall test in spring tests and there’s all this stress over. But that’s just one measurement. If I am bad at taking tests, if it I have test phobia or things like that and I don’t perform well on this test, but I can tell you everything you need me to know. I mean, it’s just one measurement, so maybe that completion rate is just one measurement. So if you do have someone dropping out, but yet they’re writing you a glowing testimonial on referrals. I mean that success, right? But I agree with you. You have to have that measurement. But maybe it’s not the end all be all like I thought it was in the beginning,

Trudy :

you know, I think that’s a really good point. It might be. It might be a bundle of measures without doing it, so that it kills you every month when you have to do the metrics put it, put it all together. But it is. But it is interesting, To To, think about what is the right way of deciding whether or not your course is successful and if you’re a measure of success, isn’t necessarily go through and tick the box complete box on every module. But instead, well, I watched this module in that module, and I grew my business by 20% over the last three months. Maybe that’s the measure of success, so that interesting.

Marla:

When I have that structure and I start with that is, you know, what is the transformation? What does it look like? And that would be that measurement. And then what are the ways that you’re giving them to practise it? And that reflection component is where they’re almost setting a self-goal. You know, what is the transformation that you want from this? And then are they getting in or not? And that’s part of that. That measurement

Trudy :

Yeah, No, that’s that’s That’s a really, really, really good way of looking at it. I think that’s really great. I think we underestimate, or me personally, probably can. On their estimate, the power of psychology in getting people to set their own goals because we were there with our community. We always say to people, What’s your definition of success?. I think we could do that more.

Marla :

That’s really great. I think that’s I agree with you. I think we should all do that a little more

Trudy:

because we work a lot with carers. Are people who have carrying responsibilities like that is what they do. They don’t get paid for it, but that’s what they do. Somebody who’s got it in their life, who has a disability or a serious illness or their elderly or whatever on SO for them. Sometimes success isn’t a business that makes a million dollars. Success for them can be something that they get to do. That’s just for them that they can go and do every day. And it becomes like a many risk but rest fight time away for them to just be looking after themselves. And that’s a complete definition, a different definition of success. Then what, you might see splashed all over the Internet going. I’ve got a Lamborghini and look at my private jet, you know Well, that’s sort of rubbish. That we know is not true. Yes.

Marla :

Doesn’t motivate everyone. I’m not motivated by that. That mean I moved to a Caribbean island to live on less. And you know, you have to agree with you. You have to find out what what’s motivating and what success for you. And I think you make a really good point that maybe we do need to focus on what that means for people that we’re working with and often maybe coaching them and did knowing what that means for them.

Trudy:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I want to I want to pick up on something that you said mentioned a couple of times now. And that was that shift your life shift where you basically I sold everything and you moved to this island where you are now. What was it that brought about that mindset shift that freed you up to do that? And have you had any other big mindset shifts in your journey?

Marla:

Yeah, I was in a job that I love making more money than I’d ever made in my life. And I loved the travel, but after three years, I was just burned out and I found that I was happier when I was here and I granted when I was here, I was on vacation. And so maybe I just like to vacation. But after being here, I’ve been here 11 years. So there’s something about, you know, there’s not I don’t know. I think you have to define what works for you, and I have sort of found the balance. And, you know, there’s no shopping things and it doesn’t matter what kind of car you drive here. Everybody’s in a golf cart or used Moto, so you know, it doesn’t matter. Those things don’t matter here. And whereas when I lived in the United States, I felt like I was on this hamster will corporate trying to keep up with the Joneses. And I’ve kept wanting more and more and more, and and I’m not judging that, you know, e, I was just tired of that. And so I just needed something different. And for me being here, my house is paid for. You know, I live on less. I you have solar panels now that help topper my electricity. And but yet I still have a home bigger than I thought I would, and I’ve spent more money on it than I probably should have. But, you know, so I’m just trying balance. I just try and balance.

Trudy:

Yes. Yeah. And you know, that’s that’s kind of the key thing, isn’t it Just just that balance, because we talk about work, life, balance and some of us mean one thing, and some of us mean a completely different thing when we talk about it. But once again it comes down to our own definition off way. That’s it means and then and then figuring out how to achieve it and

Marla:

how to let it roll because, you know, the wood that looked like for May before the pandemic and during the pandemic. And now they’re totally different. So I have to find ways. For example, during the pandemic, I found that I was pivoting in everything that we were doing and kind of chasing money because, you know, we needed a new way to make money, don’t to survive. And now that tourism has picked back up and we’re kind of almost back to normal now it’s kind of running all over Mei. So much find a slowdown, held it re Bree, focus and reposition things but, you know, being able to just sort of say Okay, well, what feels good now may not feel good. And if a year from now, and just be able to adjust, and I think that’s the advantage of being an entrepreneur is I can’t do that. I can if I’m done. What something I could be done.

Trudy:

Yes, and let it go.

Marla

Yes,

Trudy:

yes, yeah, I think that that’s really incredible. It’s one of a CZ, you said is one of the benefits off having your own business, although I do think sometimes we need to differentiate between an entrepreneur and somebody who has a business. Sometimes somebody with a business is not an entrepreneur and so many entrepreneurs who is an entrepreneur. Mind not be in business.

Marla:

I agree with that, and I hadn’t thought about why you and I are in the same group together, and I’ve heard Pat Flynn mentioned that before, and I hadn’t thought about it that way until I heard him say it, and I want 100% believe it’s. Some of my businesses are just businesses, but some of them are not. Some of them take me knowing what to do as an entrepreneur does scale this on grow businesses and make them work together. And so they’re different. You’re absolutely right.

Trudy :

Yeah, absolutely. You know, you mentioned you mentioned Pat Flynn and the fact that we’re in a group together, you know, we’re both in Kaplan’s S p I pro works by small Passive Income pro-community group. and It’s one of those things that I like talking about because I think the community is really, really important, especially when you are trying to start your own business. What do you just took a little bit about community and how you see it and how you experience it.

Marla:

Ironically, I am in to mastermind groups. There are five people in each group, and they are both came from my association with Pat Flynn. One of them came from the watching the quarantine live show, and the other one came from SPI Pro and I don’t know where I would be without them. I mean, they have talked about being a, solopreneur your but one of them what? Actually, both of them I’m close with all of those amazing people in those groups and one group, they’re actually coming to Mexico in August, and we’ve rented a house and we’re going to work and not work, and I’m really excited about it. So that community for me has been huge on DH. I believe it to be true as well. And courses. Yes, there are some courses. You just want to go through the modules, but it’s not really my skill. You know, what I do is really help people referring what they’re doing and look at it. And from a different perspective and health, people find transformations.

Trudy :

Yeah, that sounds amazing. You know, I have to agree with you around around masterminds being part of a mastermind. So for people who are listening, if you haven’t heard that term before, Mastermind is usually a small group of people that could be anywhere from 3 to 10 or whatever. It’s got to be small enough that everybody can have a voice and you basically share your joys and sorrows of your journey. And sometimes it could be personal. Sometimes it could be business. If I hadn’t been part of Ah, a mastermind when I was going through the early parts of my journey, I would not have made it either. it just need other people around you who know what you’re going through to be ableto actually, you know, get there. And without it wow

Marla :

and hold you accountable, right?

Trudy :

Yes

Marla:

know, I love being able to be in my groups and say OK, next week, I’m going to have accomplished x,y and z if I have not ask me why not. And you

Trudy :

and that was pretty powerful is like because of. And sometimes you’ll get sympathy. And sometimes you get a big back foot in the backside, which is sometimes what you need,

Marla:

exactly. Anything. The first round of my course. One of my colleagues. So I called her and my master My group said that. When are you going to launch this course? You’ve been talking about it for months, and I just randomly picked a date. And I said, Okay, here it is, because the more time I take, you know, e I work well with deadlines. The more time I give myself, the more time I’m going to take. And so I just said, OK, January, Tink, that that’s going to be it. And every single one of them in that group signed up for that course we barter coached for it. But, you know, they went through that course with me and supported me. Teo really work through it, and I appreciate them for that.

Trudy :

Yeah, well, that’s that’s amazing. And that’s one of the beautiful things about being part of a community. Is, is that you get that support. You do get that support, and it’s just amazing. Hey, I’m just mindful of the time, and I just I just want to respect your time. And But I just wanted to ask you a.at least One more question and that is this, that we’ve talked about a lot of things. We’ve talked about community. We’ve We’ve talked about mindset, shifts that really, really change your life. And we’ve talked about some of the stuff that you I think that would help people who want to start an online course. But if there is, what is one thing that we haven’t talked about her that I haven’t asked you that would help somebody who’s in that? That’s sort of the beginning, early years of starting their business. What should they know? What would be useful for them to know,

Marla :

You know, just do it just start. You cannot improve what you do not start. And I actually have ah component of my business that I them I have a block, and I am in my own way about it. But the month of June is going to be the month, my challenge to overcome that block, and I’m just going to do it even if it’s doing it badly, and that will be okay and I will improve and having I know we are. You asked what we haven’t spoken of but having that community to help you see the writing on the outside of your bottle. You can’t see the instructions if you’re inside. It’s having someone with an outside perspective I think is incredibly important and talk to your audience, you know, interview your interview, your audience and find out what it is they’re struggling with, because in the end, it’s filling a need. And, you can’t do that unless you you know what the need is from their lips.

Trudy :

That is so powerful. That is just so true. And that’s one of the things that in our community we focus on a couple of things to three things. It’s a metrics But it’s also understanding your customer so deeply that you, you know, you can talk about them or you can in your copy on your website, your emails, you know, in in your ads or whatever they recognise themselves. And it sze just a really powerful thing to do, and it surprises me. Well, it doesn’t surprise me, really, because it can be scary going out and talking to the customers. It can be painful listening to feedback if they didn’t necessarily get what they thought they needed from you. But if you don’t do that, there’s no way you conserve them properly and you don’t serve them properly. Then you’re not gonna have a business eventually, right?

Marla :

Especially in where my field and trying to translate that as you speak, you know, and getting out of that jargon because it’s so difficult for me. And that’s one of the things that I’ve really tried to do. When I have spoken with people and interview them is try and find the words that they would use to describe it on DH. That’s that’s hard. But you know that’s so important, and I’m still doing it to this day a year and a half later, continuing to just try and talk to people and hear them and see how I can support.

Trudy:

Yeah, no, that’s That’s really, really powerful. Look, Marla, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. If people are interested in getting some help, where would they find you?

Marla :

So my website is refocusedincome.com because that is sort of what idea was refocused and refrain. You know what we’re doing and what you want to do and that that is the best place to get in touch with me. I also have a Facebook group. If anyone wants to join that, which is also the Facebook group facebook dot com group’s roof over Central, but that those are the best places finding.

Trudy Rankin podcast Transcript